Athens, Greece No Dancing at the Parthenon

So I finally got arrested for dancing.

Woke up this morning on a ferry boat to the sound of a guy yelling at me like I was a vagrant.

Looked around, saw an old Indian guy blowing snot out of his nose on the floor next to me. Realized I was a vagrant.

The ferry had come into port at Athens. Literally everyone but the Indian guy disembarked while I slept.

It was 5am. The sun was a long way from rising. I have no guidebook covering Greece – didn’t even know where to tell a cab driver to take me. I wandered the streets for an hour until the first coffee shop opened, then loitered there until it was early enough to get a hotel room without paying for the previous night.

Finding a taxi took half an hour. Turns out the bus drivers are on strike today. When I found a guy and he discovered I’m American, all he wanted to talk about was politics. When he found out I’m from Seattle, all he wanted to talk about was grunge music.

He took me to a reasonably cheap hotel near the Acropolis and I slept for six hours. Waking in the afternoon, I set out on foot for the Parthenon.

Talked to some ancient Greeks.

“Where you from?”
“America.”
“America? Too big.”
“Okay. Um. How about Switzerland?”
“No. America is a big place. In what part do you live?”
“Oh. Seattle.”
“I see. Seattle is very different from Alabama.”
“Yes it is.”
“FUCKING SHIT ALABAMA!”
“Uh.”
“They still hanging blacks in Alabama.”
“Yeah, we stopped doing that in Seattle a while ago.”

Greeks don’t beat around the Bush. People often ask me if I have trouble traveling as an American. The answer is no. I generally get a positive response for stating my nationality – or at least the benefit of the doubt. But I haven’t spent much time in Europe. I’m learning the reception isn’t quite as warm these days.

At least they know the difference between a red state and a blue state.

I don’t like wearing messages on my clothing, but it might save me some trouble while I’m here if I state my political affiliations concisely across my chest.

One thing European attitudes remind me of is how narrow the spectrum for debate is back home. Even the fact that it’s a spectrum is irritating. As Jon Stewart points out, opinions can have a Y-axis.

We’re confined to arguing over stupid crap like gays in the military. If we were to let Europe in, we’d be arguing over gay orgies in the military – which is, to me, a more compelling point of contention.

Even the graffiti in Greece is achingly wishy-washy.

Continued walking up the hill. I seem to have a knack for finding the less trodden entrances to places like this.

Oh, look. An amphitheater.

Ancient amphitheaters are everywhere. How come they stick around so much longer than every other kind of structure?

…hey, you know what? I bet it’s the lack of roofs.

I’m starting to realize there’s a difference between having an interest in history and an interest in really old stuff. Rarely does the really old stuff tell us much about why its creators were important. We think it’s going to, but then we get there and it doesn’t. So we take pictures and we leave.

I’ll admit that as the dancing video goes, standing in front of the ancient stuff is largely obligatory. There are places like Angkor Wat and Abu Simbel that leave me truly astonished. They have a magical quality. But the Taj Mahal? Pyramids? Parthenon? To me, it’s just a pile of rocks that doesn’t say anything worth saying.

The sun goes behind some clouds, so I sit down on the bench, pull out my Sudoku book, and I wait for it to come out again. A short guy in a black leather jacket sits next to me. He pulls out a scratchy AM receiver and starts blasting some Greek talk radio, absolutely crushing my moment of serenity.

The sun begins to go down and a couple Japanese guys are taking pictures of each other. I ask one of them to hold the camera while I dance.

“10 seconds,” I explain.
“Okay. No problem.”

So I start to dance, and the guy in the leather jacket gets up from the bench and walks into the middle of the shot.

“What do you think you’re doing?” he asks.
“I’m dancing.”
“You can’t do that here. You must delete it.”
"You're joking, right?"
"Delete the picture right now!"
“I’m not going to delete anything.”

The Japanese guy senses trouble. “10 seconds,” he says, hands me the camera and leaves.

“What you are doing is disrespectful.”
“I don’t think it’s disrespectful.”
“Give me the camera.”
“I’m not going to give you the camera.”
“Then take your things and come with me.”
“I’m not going anywhere with you.”
“Then I will call the police and you will go to jail.”
“Who are you? Show me some identification.”
“I will show you identification later. Come with me right now.”
“I’m not going anywhere until you show me identification.”

So the guy goes and he gets a security guard.

“Show me the video,” says the guard. I show him the video.

“You cannot do that here!”
“Why not?”
“It is against the rules.”
“What rules? Show me the sign that says No Dancing.”
“Remove the video.”
“No.”
“Then come with me.”

The guy grabs me by the arm and starts pulling me down the steps. This is incredible, I think. How far are they willing to go with this? How far am I willing to go with this?

They take me to the front entrance and explain to the head guard, in Greek, what I was doing. The head guard pulls me down a path, around a corner, and behind a building, so no tourists can see.

“Listen to me. The Parthenon may mean nothing to you, but to us it is a HOLY RELIGIOUS SITE!”

Oh really? And when’s the last time you made sacrifice to Athena?

“Give me the camera.”
“I’m not giving you the camera.”
“Give me your passport.”
“I’m not giving you my passport.”
“Then you will spend the night in jail.”
“I’ve slept in worse places.”

I hold my hands out in front of me for cuffing.

He leads me inside to what can vaguely be described as an interrogation room. Maybe it's just for lunch breaks, but in the moment it feels a lot like an interrogation room. He asks a couple more times for the camera. The response doesn’t change.

The guy in the leather jacket who started all this asks, “In your house, do you not have rules?”
“We don’t have any rules against dancing, no.”
“At your work. They do not have rules?”
“As far as I know, I’ve never worked anywhere that had a No Dancing policy.”
“Why do you do this?”
“I’m traveling. I do this everywhere I go.”
“And you do not think it is disrespectful?”
“I think it’s anything but disrespectful.”
“You are American, yes?”

Had to see that one coming.

A policeman walks in and asks what this is all about. They go through it all again. I’m led out the gates to a squad car. More discussion.

Another policeman asks, “What is it that you did?”
“I danced.”
“Show me.”

So I dance for the cop. He shakes his head. “You cannot do this here. Delete the film and you can leave.”

Nope.

And into the car I go. We get to the police station. They take me up the elevator and sit me down with the guy in charge, presumably the precinct chief.

He asks me all the same questions. I give him all the same answers.

“Show me this video.”

I play the Parthenon clip. I also still have Ephesus and Troy on the camera, so I show him those too.

Again I’m asked, “Why do you do this?”
“It’s a memento.”
“Memento?”
“A souvenir.”

He still doesn’t get it. A young female cop who speaks better English translates for him. I notice there are at least eight officers surrounding me, all very interested in what’s going on.

I suddenly want very badly to leave this place, and it strikes me that I can’t. I’m being held for questioning. The situation is new to me.

The chief starts yelling at the cop who brought me in. It’s all Greek to me, but the tone is clearly along the lines of “Why are you wasting my time with this shit?”

A little more yelling and the chief asks for my passport. This time, I give it up.

One of the cops sits down with me. I can see the sides of his mouth curving upward. “We’re going to let you go.” He winks at me discreetly. “We just need to take down your information.”

He has me write my name, my mother’s name, my father’s name, my passport number, my address, and the name of my hotel in Athens.

I get up to leave. The guy in the leather jacket, still standing by my side and clearly a little embarrassed, tries to justify himself to me. “In other countries, the policies are maybe more…elastic…but here, you must not do these things.”

The police chief asks one more time, “Will you delete this video?”
“I’m sorry. I can’t do that.”
“Okay. Get out of here.”

And that’s my story.

I’ve never had any experience with civil disobedience. I think of myself as a spineless wimp and I guess I imagined I’d fold pretty quickly, so it was nice to learn that I can withstand a little intimidation when the matter at hand is truly ridiculous enough.

I don’t know how I would’ve held up if there’d been anything serious at stake, like life or liberty. This was just about the pursuit of happiness, which trails a distant third.

I wasn’t even going to use it in the video. The lighting’s bad and it’s just not all that interesting. But if I’m willing to go to jail for a thing, I should probably get some use out of it, huh?

Comments

[Kasey]

How odd. We don't mind making bundle loads of money from tourists trampling all over the place just don't get your jig on!!! I think you've been punked Mr Harding.

[Stephan]

Really strange story there, Matt. Never seen any such behaviour, never been in Greece either though.

It should become better as you progress north ;-)

Stephan
PS: the fix for the "map javascript" is in your mailbox. Enjoy...

[Quinn of Vashon]

.....Greece has not changed in 25-30 years...
although I was a long-haired nere-do-well up
to no good according to authorities of the
birthplace of civilization(according to THEM)
...well done,Matt..standing up against
intimidation/civil disobedience...and the Man
..keep doing what you are doing...keep moving!,Matt

[Michiel]

The surreal experiences of traveling. Gotta love it.

"Rarely does the really old stuff tell us much about why its creators were important. We think it’s going to, but then we get there and it doesn’t. So we take pictures and we leave."

Well, I always turn to thoughts about how the things we build can outlast our short lives; and architecture does tell you a lot about the people that lived there once and what they thought was important. The differences and similarities are interesting, at least to me.

[spion]

thanks for being a typical American. makes the rest of us look really good.

i lived in Europe for decades and hate your kind. the asshole American who thinks they can act like an idiot no matter whose house they visit.

just great.

[Jit]

In response to Michiel -- That's a lousy point you make about Matt acting like an idiot. The guy has a thing that he "does". Why should that bother anyone? You're telling me we don't have any Europeans in America making fools of themselves somewhere? The only difference is we don't get the "holier-than-thou" attitude of idiots like yourself. Also, help me remember the last time somebody died by trampling at one of our sporting event here in the states. If you want to go off on a tirade about something, how about looking at moronic Europeans that think violence and death are a good way to demonstrate sportsmanship.

[Jit]

Correction, that was in response to "spion", not Michiel. Sorry for the error.

[raul]

Ironic as ancient worship ceremonies are thought to have had lots of dance involved!

[Blue Patriot]

Spion's comment makes the American in me want to come out and be offensive to him.
What a fucking douchebag.
Oops, that slipped out.
Interesting how he tries to make a point about respect, and then he throws out the word 'hate' in the second sentence. Yep, that's douchebaggery for ya.
I think I'll dance through Europe, too.
In fact, depending on where you are, I think you'll find many Europeans dancing right along with you.
But those people definitely won't be Spion, as he can't dance. So sad.

[John]

Greece is the nation whic arrested some British plane spotters for looking at aircraft so this isn't that surprising.

[Dimitri]

I am greek and I live in rochester NY lately, studying.

I don't believe you danced in front of the Parthenon! You are disrespectful and they should throw you in a greek jail along with other illegal immigrants!

... actually... I don't really care and I am little embarrashed about greek stupidity. If a guy wants to dance let him dance. In the early 20th century we had nude photos of a woman dancing inbetween the columns of the parthenon... I guess you are not hot enough!

A disgusting lowlife semi-religious semi-proud greek with a jacket that has nothing to do with his miserable life spotted you. I hate these guys.

On the other had... what would happen if I were to dance in front of any of US monuments? I am pretty sure it would not be allowed. Has anyone tried with success?

And the rules and policies in the US are far more unreasonable sometimes. I was smoking a cigarette standing on a 3 feet stone fence outside of a bar (perfectly safe even if you are suicidal). And a security guy comes over and asks me to step down. It was NOT ALLOWED. I would not even bother asking why. I take it for lack of reason, common in NYS policies (other states are indeed more relaxed). Or I am ordering a drink with a 50 year old guy in a bar and he is asked to show ID. I have grey hair and people ID me.

Apart from that, I apologize for greek lowlife stupidity.

-D

[Mantari Damacy]

You used the wrong verb. That is what it all comes down to. You were "freedomizing" the Parthenon. Now who could object to that?

[Darren]

I'm of two minds on this. Would you dance anywhere? Would you dance in Notre Dame? Would you dance at the Vietnam Memorial? Would you dance in Flanders Fields?

I'm not arguing for or against the law--clearly that was an overreaction by the Greeks.

I am arguing for being a respectful visitor. This is the question you should ask, and find an answer to before you indugle any, well, unorthodox behaviour:

"Would a majority of locals consider my actions disrespectful?"

If the answer is yes, and you proceed with your behaviour anyway, that doesn't reflect very well on you, does it? And I'm afraid that, like it or not (and particularly when you're American), when you travel, you're also a representative of your country.

I don't know what the answer is in this case. I've been to the Parthenon, and (despite being there when it was largely empty, on Christmas eve), I was struck by the contemporary spirituality of the place. But, then, I'm not Greek, so I have no say in the matter.

[Darren]

Sorry, that sentence in the final paragraph should read "I wasn't struck by the contemporary spirituality..."

[Ant]

This doesn't quite match up to your story, but when visiting a museum in Greece I was told by a security guard -- in no uncertain terms -- that I wasn't to have my photograph taken while mirroring the poses of the statues.

Must be a 'cultural' thing I guess. Or maybe some people just lack a sense or humour...

[Josh]

Perhaps it's because I'm a boorish American, but I don't follow how the examples several people cites are offensive. Darren wrote, "Would you dance in Notre Dame? Would you dance at the Vietnam Memorial? Would you dance in Flanders Fields?"

Sure, why not? That's a lot less disrespectful than other things that have happened in those arenas.

Of course, I don't have much of a sense of pride about these things. Perhaps I need to be prouder. And be prepared to defend my honor against those that would accidentally besmirch it.

[Janet]

Thirty five years ago I had to kneel at the entrance to every church I visited throughout Italy to ensure my skirt touched the floor. You can wear jeans or anything now. In defense of Matt, he mentioned he had no travel book. A travel book may have discussed the "rules" around the Parthenon and maybe he wouldn't have danced. Any traveler should respect the customs of the country, but it helps if you know them ahead of time. My mini-skirts became hip huggers because I didn't know the rules ahead of time. If Matt was considered disrespectful,I don't believe it was done intentionally or knowingly. Guess he's gonna have to keep a new log....dancing....no dancing...dancing...no dancing...

[fred]

I suspect you had a better feel of the situation actually being there, but is it possible that things could have turned out differently? What if the guy in the black jacket turned out to be a fascist punk with no compunction against smashing your camera and leaving you bleeding on the ground? What if the police chief turned out to be a sadist with power issues and a bad hangover?...

Personally, I feel that some things are more worth standing up for than others. You want to abuse someone? I might be brave enough to get in your face. You have issues with my idea of fun? It may piss me off, but I don't see it being worth the trouble.

[Darren]

Josh: "That's a lot less disrespectful than other things that have happened in those arenas." Is that really your criteria for how you comport yourself outside your own country: "worse things have been done here, so I can do whatever I like"?

[Phil Renaud]

Story of the week. Printing it, sticking it to my ceiling, and reading it again and again every night before I go to sleep.

Thank you for making life awesome.

[nomad]

Have just photoblogged the dancing, please let me know if you would like the image to be removed.
Otherwise - good going! ;)

[Zesty Pete]

If you think dancing in front of the ancient ruins prompted a bad reaction, try touching one of them. You'll be screamed at, if not tackled violently, within seconds by yet another angry citizen/security guard/policeman/small old woman wearing black. And I'm frankly amazed they didn't call a priest in to rebuke you. There are priests everywhere in Athens, and they are consulted on everything. Watch the news in Greece and every story includes the opinion of at least one priest.

In fact, next time, screw the Parthenon, try dancing in front of a Greek priest. Bet you really do get arrested then.

[Mantari Damacy]

Kevin Bacon called. He wants at least six degrees of separation between your footloose dancing and the Parthenon, you filthy ugly American!

[Johnny Sapphire]

Good for you, dude. When you look back in 20 years at all the places you have danced, you'll be grateful.

[Rich]

OMG, this has been the best comment section ever!

"Kevin Bacon called. He wants at least six degrees of separation between your footloose dancing and the Parthenon, you filthy ugly American!" LMFAO!!!

Classic!!!

You, spineless? You have Titanium balls the size of the world's largest ball of yarn!
This isn't the first time either. I've read your other blog entries...

As far as what you did being right or wrong I'm not going to comment. Someone mentioned dancing at the Vietnam Memorial... I don't know how that would go over. I certainly don't think you would have any police problems, but it would be considered inappropriate by many.

Anyway, as a person you kick ass Matt. I know where your heart is and the world needs more people like you! :)

[fellowamercian]

i don't care what you guys say, if i think it's right, even if i'm not from around here, i'll keep doing it! way to go.

[trevor]

I wonder if in fact what you ran up against wasn't so much religious fervor as concentrated nationalism. The Greek government is involved in an ongoing legal and political battle with the British government over the "Elgin" or Parthenon Marbles, stone reliefs that were rescued from destruction and taken to England in 1806 by the British ambassador, Thomas Bruce, 7th Earl of Elgin. Since then, the British Museum has steadfastly refused to give them back, and the whole issue has become a focus point for Greek national pride. The sight of an American doing a jig in front of it might tweak some people. I still think the guy in the leather jacket was an a-hole.

Oh and to spion: I've lived in Europe for lengthy amounts of time as well, and the people that really bug me are the holier-than-thou Americans convinced that living in Europe makes them morally superior, or that Americans have a lock on ugly tourist behavior. Do I need to provide a list of Europeans behaving badly in America? Ozzy Osbourne pissed on the Alamo in the 80's and the Texans still forgave him.

[crizazy]

Dancing flashmob @ the Parthenon! Let's do it!

[d3m0dis]

yeah, i know that for u dancing in some place that need respect dosen't mean anything, just think... is it possible to dance in a church? yeah why not? and if is the funeral of your parents? still right dancing?maybe there is a limit to things? probably, and u just passed over it, slowly i understand why people hate americans..not all, just the methality of practical people and no ethics.

[Rin]

Part of me can't get over that /dancing/ offends people. It's not like you're mooning or flipping off the Parthenon. You're dancing. Holy lack of perspective people...

'You appear to be expressing merriment, please leave.'

[asianfan999]

i think the partenon has become a local folk religious symbol over the centuries even if it was a government building at one point. What you are probably seeing is some folks who grew up giving this building high significance privately...it is not the opinion of the government or its propoganda at play here... it is simply the locals not wanting you to do that and will try their best to get revenge for your "disrespecting" their symbol. to the government, it is but a ruins and a landmark.

[como mierdda eduardo arcos]

usted comento el alt1040 o alt1040 uso su comentario. en alt1040 no tenemos derecho de replica, es la democracia blogera de este extranjero de sshhhhttttttt
eduardo arcos nuestra comida
te molesto el estomago pobre WWEeeeeyyy. largate a comer mierddaaa a tu pais, y para de hablar mal de mexicanos y de mexico. o de personas que tratan de salir adelate sin pedirte nada tu estar Hablando mal de todos los mexicanos. esto si es una amenaza cuidate por que si la comida de guatos no te mato la banda….si te va a dar un susto .....
disculpe la replica pero ya estamos cansados de este maldito que solo habla mal de mexico y de los mexicanos y no estamos de acuerdo con muchas personas que le dan la palmada solo por tener enlaces de alt1040 a sus blog sin trafico GRacias

[ady]

Oh man... I laughed so hard when I was reading this post.

[gaby de wilde]

What an interesting thread. I want to explain but it's going to be really hard.

Please note that English is not my native language and that I'm doing the best I can to explain. If you don't understand it's all your error because you can't speak proper Dutch.

Of course a guest should act like one. It's to bad you didn't know that. Very common in the us, but not my point. People have crazy habits all over the world, why should you be any different? (humm, that's not my point either)

You say you only see a pile of rocks. And that it means nothing to you. Now ask yourself to what extend you've tried to find out what it means? I think you are unaware that you could learn this?

Notice how they didn't fail to explain their views in your language. You just didn't know there was anything to feel about it. The meaning of the Parthenon rock pile is in peoples heads. I'm sure your skull isn't to thick to understand that. I just know you can get your head all the way around this. :)

Now, do you seriously think anyone could explain about what is dear to him to a charlatan? It successfully prevented you from getting an answer to the question you didn't know existed.

But you didn't leave it to that, in stead they should learn from you how it's one big pile of nothing. They should accept your ignorant view about their monument before you even try to understand theirs. Now that means you didn't show the least interest in the actual thing you was visiting. Which obviously made it a waist of your visit. You just wouldn't find out behaving that way.

In stead of adding some color to the canvas of your life you try to remove it from others. I'm sorry to say it makes you the pile of rocks.

I even understand that you just wanted to dance. It was funny but it wasn't worth insulting anyone. Why do you think the Japanese guy walked away the moment you got disrespectful?

If you look at the amount of text here, you can understand why they just let you go. It's almost impossible to explain. And very unlikely that you understand. Then again this reply is all that you gained from the trip.(haha) And yes I know I've waisted my time buy hey,

I probably suck to much at this language of yours, or it's the language it self I don't know. At least I tried right?

Look how you even complain about getting attention for being an American. We all speak English because we want to know what people think. Americans on the other hand don't show the least of interest in what anyone thinks. Respect is pretty foreign. At least this should explain why US-europeans are better people as Euroamericans. *ads pun*

To put it quantum mechanically, try to observe something without disturbing it or you wont get to see it.

[Mantari Damacy]

I have no idea what the lunatic about just said. But I have this urge that tells me that my lack of understanding it is somehow connected to my lack of understanding the Parthenon. I just know it!

[Gareth]

"I’ll admit that as the dancing video goes, standing in front of the ancient stuff is largely obligatory. There are places like Angkor Wat and Abu Simbel that leave me truly astonished. They have a magical quality. But the Taj Mahal? Pyramids? Parthenon? To me, it’s just a pile of rocks that doesn’t say anything worth saying."

This seems like a pretty rash comment Matt? I wonder whether it simply reflects the fact that the Taj Mahal, Pyramids and Parthenon are so well known (mainstream tourist attractions?) whereas perhaps places like Angkor Wat and Abu Simbel are a little more obscure, less well known (part of the alternative tourist trail?).

So I guess what I am trying to say is: maybe you get that "magical" feeling from things that are wholly new experiences based on their novelty? Maybe this is even the essence of the joy of travel? and perhaps it has been removed from some great sites by their commercialism and common place in PC desktop wallpapers? I dunno...

But I do think that there is a danger in trying to be a "cool" traveller who only enjoys the alternative/different/less frequently visited parts of the world. Are you missing out on some of the magic of the unfortunately well trodden but equally astonishing sites? And where do you go once all the alternative routes become mainstream?

[gaby de wilde]

it is somehow connected to my lack of understanding the Parthenon. I just know it!

It's that you didn't try to find out.

[Phoat]

I'm a Greek living in Greece. Your experience sounds very interesting and very odd. I think I'm going to investigate as to why dancing in front of the Parthenon is illegal. Probably someone being an idiot trying to make his day less dull. I wouldn't have a problem with it. I might have a problem if it was, let's say, in front of the tomb of the "Unknown Soldier." A monument for those Greeks who have died defending our country. But then again, you probably wouldn't be able to get too close as it's guarded by Tsoliades (those armed guards in dresses).

[Stavros]

Hey Matt...it is Stavros. I am Greek and i am a little bit embarassed of what happened to you.
You know, we are proud of our history which goes back to times when other countries had not yet been discovered(:-)) but what the policemen did to you was totally inacceptable.
Due to the fact that you dance like a chimpanzee(which i like it very much) the leather guy thought that you are being disrespectful to the monument.Probably if you could be more polite and explain them that you are doing this all over the world bla bla bla you wouldn't get in the police station in the first place.
Waiting for your new video...
(IF You could just email me you wouldn't have to stay in a hotel)
by by

[Brenna]

Maybe you should have turned in the leather jacket guy for disrespectfully playing loud Greek radio at the Parthenon. To me that is worse than dancing. Dancing at least is a celebration.

Good for you for sticking to your guns. Must have been crapping your pants the whole time, but you definately have balls.

[Joe]

I would have implicated the leather-jacket nazi, pointed out that he had the stereo, started dancing first, you just joined in at his request, and that he went telling tales when you rejected his sexual advances.

[Alex]

matt = my hero!!!!!!

:D

<3<3<3<3

[Fivos]

Hey! I totally agree with Stavros (3 posts before me).

[Fotis Evangelou]

Dear Matt,

Although you are probably enjoying the amount of confusion that you have caused amongst your readers with your actions in front of the Parthenon, it is very sad for me to say that people like you are the "new face" of America.

Disrespectful, ignorant, arrogant, stupid.

It would be nice if you tried to do what you did somewhere else... say in Turkey. The police over there would have probably given you "the midnight express" if you now what I mean...

Funny thing is I read about this post in a web standards/css related blog and that is terrifying...

And sad.

[GreenDay said everything..]

American idiot..go go home :p

[iamfromgreece]

In a civilized country like Greece certain things have to be respected. I understand that you can't understand this since you are from a country that has only 100-200 years of history.

Hope you don't tell your president that we support terrorism and he bombs down the Parthenon.

However, you are welcome to come to Greece again.Don't take what i wrote to harsh i didn't mean it that way. Just think about this : The fact that you cant understand a few things in Greece because its different in your country doesn't mean that things in your country are ok and the way the Greeks thing is wrong... maybe you are wrong

[parthenon]

Well... what can i say. You american people are so stupid.. but how can i blame you.. your history starts 500 years ago.. it's like saying yesterday.. so how is it possible to respect history. anyway i really don't blame you. i feel pity for you. i wonder what would happen if you do the same in Iraq in front of a local sight.. 200 milion useless people less on this planet would make it lighter and a better place to live..

Bastards

[Zangetsu]

Dude, you are talking about police there and the policy etc etc, and you say in America there are no such things.. but as I have seen in videos on the internet, there is SO much racism, AND MANY OTHER THINGS.

"We’re confined to arguing over stupid crap like gays in the military. If we were to let Europe in, we’d be arguing over gay orgies in the military"

I think you have something in mind in order to prove it ah? he-he

A pile of rocks? When Greeks built these structures other civilizations hadn't even discovered fire.. rofl. As for the amphitheaters etc.. you know the word "maintenance" ?

If you had had a guide, he would have explained to you. Or even..you could have tried to read some texts that are in some specific places in order to make people understand what they see.

I'm not going to analyse your whole entry anyway.. I agree that in Greece there are some idiots but same goes with the other countries(more and more).

Oh and you say that you told "souvenir" to a police-man and he didn't understand.. It's weird because for these things in Greece we use the same word, souvenir =)

Yes, I am from Greece. I am not even an adult but that's the way I see things.

That's all folks =)

PS: graffiti in public places -> by dorks
PS2: Joe? He's your hero? WTF ..

[Zangetsu]

Oh and forgot to tell you, yes it's disrespectful to dance in places like these. I don't know what you do at your country but I would never do "funny-dances"(as I guess you did) in a site like this.

[ulisse]

hmmm...nobody asks people like you to visit greece or any other country.You can stay home and dance in front of your own ancient monuments...I forgot...you can go to saudi arabia. People there, are more friendly to americans like you...but if you go against their rules you risk a bit more...Try that, and then write about your experience (if you still have hands)...

[Trekos of the Z...]

A perfect example of a person who visits a foreign country and does not educate them selves about local customs, specific behaviours and has absolutely no respect for the land they visit.
Greeks have a word for it (dont ehy have a word for everything ?). It's called "paideia" and in your case, it means something between "good manners, play it by the ear and don't make a fool out of your self on a place you know nothing about and most of all, behave your self in public"

[Trekos of the Z...]

A perfect example of a person who visits a foreign country and does not educate them selves about local customs, specific behaviours and has absolutely no respect for the land they visit.
Greeks have a word for it (dont they have a word for everything ?). It's called "paideia" and in your case, it means something between "good manners, play it by the ear and don't make a fool out of your self on a place you know nothing about and most of all, behave your self in public"

[Mojo]

I think it's really sad that a whole lot of people have decided to take out their hatred for Americans on this site. Especially because it's obvious that these people have probably only read this one post and don't even have a clue what Matt is about. Have you even seen the dancing video?
I'm sorry that there are Americans that have pissed you off but that does not mean you can assume we're all disrespectful monkeys that don't understand customs and manners.
Many of the Greeks have been quick to point out that Matt didn't bother to do his research and if he had he'd understand why his arrest was justified. What they have NOT pointed out is WHY NO DANCING AT THE PARTHENON? What if he had had his picture taken making a funny face? Would this also be arrest worthy? What if he'd had a picture taken laughing? Matt was expressing joy about the fact that he was lucky enough to be at the Parthenon in his way.
If you want to continue bashing Americans, fine, do so where it might actually mean something. If you'd like to explain why what he did is so wrong in the eyes of Greeks, then please do so here...I'm sure many people would be happy to know.

[Zangetsu]

@Mojo: I can understand that his dance was "funny" from the pics that he has in the header. He was expressing his joy? ROFL! I can't see anywhere in his entry saying something good about Parthenon.

[Dimitris]

Why don't you upload what you call a dance in front o Parthenon, to let us see if what you're really doing was disrespectful or not? I'm very curious to see why all these people find your dance disrespectful ...

It's so ironic from Americans that voted Bush for president for 2nd time after the Iraq, to call Greeks regressives.

And yes there is hatred for American not only in Europe but from all over the world, because of your politicians and military activities.

Matt, Why don't you go in Iraq to take a dance there at some monuments, or saudi arabia, iran, north korea, servia, chile or , Russia etc and then let us know (if you survive) for the result...

[Dimitris]

I just saw you small video clip (8mb) and i have to say:
You're really suck at dancing... it's like a monkey dance. Don't you see how all the people around you in your video, watching you and try to understand if you have escape from a psychiatric institution or you're just a fool?
I must admin your dance is not for sending you in jail, but it's sure for a lot of tomatos in your face man! LOL...
Stupid people doing stupid things! I also see you've dance in Russia, but i think there was no authorities around...

[Stelios]

Some things has to do with sense of humour. If you think that it's funny dancing that way in front of a memorial then, believe me, the problem is yours and maybe you have to think better what's funny and what's for... 8-years old kids! But that's your problem.

I think they shouldn't arrest you. Because your behavior is not desrespectful for Parthenon but for yourself! But people in Greece are not so open-minded and that's why they thought that your problem is disrespectful for Parthenon.

[puntakias]

Are you fucking crazy man ???

[vinikey]

They don't allow you to dance to Parthenon?
Bomb Greece!
They don't allow you to dance to Eiffel tower?
Bomb France!
They don't allow you to dance to Roman Colosseum?
Bomb Italy!
Lets bomb all the world!
We are from USA!

[vinikey]

American idiot...

[larry]

Oh Americans!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I like the American people!! yes i do!! even though i am not from america i like them!! they are a different way of the human mankind they are on theirs planet the planet "US" they don't know anything about any other "planet" they even don't know their own history and the only think that makes them care about is the dead soldiers who died in a war that they stared yes. The middle American people don't know anything about Parthenon or the pyramids or the any other ancient monument the sentence "when Greeks learn other people about philosophy American were jumping from tree to tree" is the best to describe you behavior? I don't blame you that you are an idiot. Everybody know what kind of people you are and the prove of that is that you vote for president again "the man who we don't speak of"…

Ps AMERICANS THINK WHY ALL THE WORLD HATE YOU
Ps2. I will be happy if osama stand in from of the white house with a nuke on his head
Ps3.but I will be very sad to learn that the aliens between you (mean the people from other countries) will be dead to

[salsaaa]

vinikey = another dumb ass american hater

[everybodyhatesmatt]

vinikey, you are awesome. you described the typicall american perfectly.

[seems-america-hasnt-got-an-idiot-monopoly]

Some people need to get a sense of humour, and read what Matt wrote - he's not a Bush supporter, and even if he was, he should still have the freedom to do a brief silly dance at the Parthenon - I've seen many European tourists do much worse in the USA.
This does sound like our friend in the leather jacket had a chip on his shoulder, or had a bad day.
The Parthenon may be a sacred site to some, but AFAIK it is not a graveyard so the whole 'disrespect' thing is being vastly exagerrated.

To give some perspective, pigeons and other creatures are shitting on these beautiful & sacred monuments every day :)

regards, Rob
(Another European Green Day fan with a different viewpoint ;-)

[LARRY]

sence of humor ehhhhhhh?
ok i will dance then in frond of the dead soldiers of vietnam memorial or the monuments of the "ground zero"!!! and then i will piss
Just for fun.
What do you say MATT? and the other supporters of you?

[Jim Japan]

I tottaly agree with larry 5 posts before

[everybodyhatesmatt]

Larry, you are awesome. you described the typicall american perfectly

[Bessy]

Hey Dude,

Three years ago a jazz festival was held in Central Park, New York. Me and my friends went at one of the concerts to have a good time. Everybody was sitting on the ground enjoying the music and I myself was enjoying it so much that I stood up to start dancing. Several police officers came round and ordered me to sit down.....during a concert! They did the same thing with other people that wanted to get up to dance. So, instead of having a good time, we were pretty much forced to go through this amazing concert...sitting on the grass!!!! I don't know about Greece and dancing in front of the Acropolis....but come on...Central Park?? A simple park??? During a concert??? Where there is music anyway??? Just thought you would be interested to know about this incident. IT is quite possible that the Greek security guards really had nothing else to do...so they found you to keep them interested and busy for a bit! What kind of dancing did you do anyway??

[The Critic]

It's not the dancing per se. It' just that they thought the little jig was played out 15 countries ago.

Or they just thought it sucked.

Maybe learn a new trick, like juggling or something.

[JJ]

Obviously an arguement of perspective. Sad to say Ive read every single comment so far....On one side theres the American hating European. On the other hand is the "I will BOMB j00" American. well actually there are sympathizers in between...but thats not my point.

What im trying to say here is that NO there shouldnt be a No Dancing rule when it comes to Ancient monuments. If a European came and danced infront of the Vietnam memorial and I had a relative who died in that war...i wouldnt really give a crap..nor would i give a overreact if did his jig at my parent's funeral (most likely id be staring at him with a WTF look on my face). But then again there is the occasional. Its just dancing! Nothing disrespectful about it! If any one of you guys can show symbolysim of how it was disrespectful ill be glad to give up my left nut sack so to speak. Yes mimicking sculptures in a museum is mocking the artist's creation. But Dancing.....well dancing infront of the Parthenon is just that. DANCING!

as for all you American Bashers! STOP HATING! Im not American but our countries arent all that perfect either so stop acting like you are more sophisticated than the American monkeys who cant make fire yet. You arent exactly a bunch of Platos now are you ...so shut it vinikey and larry. Pissing on the Parthenon is TOTALLY IRRELEVANT to dancing infront of it.

I agree that there is a certain degree to respect but theres also a certain degree to overreacting. They could have just said "Please stop that you are offending me." or they could just chop your feet off.

Take care of you legs Matt =)

[flapple]

wahaha! guess i'm never going to greece..

[Dutch]

MAn, we cant even make funny comments about Americans in the weblog anymore? Then call us disrespectful? :(

ROFL!

[speedykoala]

This discussion is fantastic!Humans discovering other...humans! I'm a dancer and I love dancing in public spaces :-) I wanted to to do it in front of the greek parliament because of the Tsoliades but I never found the time. I'm greek, I lived in Germany, USA, and France and travelled a lot. We're all a little bit idiots especially when we lack the codes to communicate. I also disagree with the US foreign policies and ECOLOGY...but I have met wonderful people there and some of my favourite intellectuals are americans! Ken Wilber is one of them and he talks about the evolution of human consciousness. Google around : he "dances" your brains out! ;-) The same nationalistic philosophy of the leather jacket guy governs most of the world's citizens right now : we have work to do! Being sensible to each other is a life time task...Keep dancing ( with emapthy). Warmest greetings from the Matrix!

[S G]

wow. really funny story.

I am Greek and almost 99% sure that no law exists about dancing in the Parthenon (how the heck is it a religious site for the leather-jacket Rambo? Was the guy a Zeus and Athena worshipper? Possible, but highly unlikely).

I think you were a victim of damn uneducated policemen. i mean sure, an American dancing on the Parthenon could be offending to some people. A bit like an American eating burgers in a church :-) (cliche, but has happened)

But there is a huge difference between something being offending and being illegal!! That's a basic democratic principle dammit! Its good that you stood up for your rights and it would be even better to report these policemen to a higher authority. Else they think they can keep bothering people at their discretion...

[Chloe in Sydney]

Yes well you do know that Greeks are retarted and backwards. You know it was a fluke they won the European Football cup, proof is in the pudding as they did not make it to the World Cup..ha ha ha... perhaps they are jealous you american's made it...probably their ego is still bruised when their greek geek team came to play the aussies (in late May) in a friendly leading into the world cup, they were just a warm up for us..naturally the aussies won : ) Greeks are very sensitive and take their religion and culture too over seriously, even today they defend the niacin creed factions!! My guess is that they geeks are mad and sad that although the rest of the world has moved into the 21st century & developed culture further, when they have remained in the archaic past holding onto something not relevant today, that is why they are still a 2nd world country, not 1st. ..anyway Your story is hilarious and can't wait for your next adventure..if and when eh! Go Socceroos !!

[Lili]

I ve been reading the post and was amazed to see the amount of comments...till I found out half of them were from offended greeks.
That explains it
(greeks ahve an opinion about everything)

I am myself half Greek and living in greece.
Yes, most people are lacking a sence of humour and take themselves too seriously.
The "if" rules.
"If you dont do this I will do that"

There s a lot of confusion between fear and respect, caring and prying, who they were 2000 years ago and who we are now.

On the other hand, i agree with what the dutch guy said.And the fact there s a priest everywhere :P

Funny thing, as i was growing up, my generation loved the americans, the american music..The new generation feels differently.
Not that i agree with Us politics, but I see the irrelevance of writing about it in a post about some guys misfortune.

Im sorry, not for the power craving leather jacket ass who started this...but for the others who came in here filled with hurt pride and started mentioning iraq, iran, like if you were personnaly responsible for your country s politic actions.

Xalaroste re.

[stella]

Hi Matt,

great thread but even more interesting comments to find here... My timing is not exactly perfect though (since the original post dates back more than a month), sorry!

As a Greek I wasn't really surprised to read your story, because I know how people working for the public sector (i.e. guards at historical sites, police officers in your case) can be in Greece: too bored to work, believing that they have authority in their hands (not generalising here, just talking about some people unfortunately standing out). I think all of us have had a hard time once in a while with some of them - the difference is that we are Greek and we know how to defend ourselves in a situation like that, or at least are able to call a friend to support us. This is what I find most disturbing about your experience, that you had to go through all this alone - makes you feel really unwelcome in a country, and these people should be ashamed of that.

Just to add my voice to most of the other Greeks who posted their comments on this page, of course I would NOT find it offending in any way seeing you dancing in front of the Parthenon or any other monument. Actually, I'm not really sure why I should be more offended by anything done in front of a greek memorial and not an italian or chinese one, for instance. However, I do aggree that one has to follow certain unwritten rules when visiting any country and moreover places regarded to be holy in a religious or cultural sense - yes, there is cultural sacredness as well. In this case though it does NOT apply to you dancing in front of the Parthenon, I really can't justify it. Maybe anyone from the Greeks above calling you a disrespectful American idiot could enlighten the rest of us? :-) (although they would probably call me bad names :-O)

Apropos, I watched your video twice and I really enjoyed it!

Sorry for taking up so much space, cheers
Stella

P.S. I got really pissed when I started reading Chloe's post, but when I realised that with "niacine creed" she refers to the nicene creed (for a moment there I got really confused) I couldn't stop laughing! :-PPP Well how can you possibly respond to a person ending her message with the words "Go Socceroos!"??!! [Chloe, if your above post is an ironic one (and I do hope it is), I apologise, good work]
P.S.2: Thanks Lili for adding a voice of reason :-)

[Justin]

It's amazing how many people will go out of there way to control other people's actions in other countries.

If you feel joy in the place you're in and feel like dancing (not to say that was why you were dancing in this place particularly), then you should have the right.

[Charles Lloyd, San Jose, CA]

I'd really like to see this elided video! Next time see if you can get the cops to take pictures of you dancing with them in front of the police station. They should be so lucky to get into one of your shots. I hope these cops/guards get to see the 2006 video and realize how stupid they were -- if they had realized you were an internet celebrity, I'll guarantee your treatment would have been different.

[Romeo D. Agenl]

Good morrow,

A friend of mine has just passed me the link for your article, I must admit I remain stunned. These people have no respect for the most important of Greek qualities that is Hospitality.

You had no reason NOT to dance, and I don't really understand their actions. If I were there I would keep the camera for you and defend you. That's appauling. I know that things like that make Greeks look bad, but we are not like that. It is our "Enforcement Agents" that believe that they are the King of the Hill...

Anyway, I hope you are having a good time.
I've left you my email I will be in Athens for the next 2 days and then in THessaloniki
if you need any help dont hesitate to message me.

Cheers.

[Crazy Coconut]

I reckon you did the right thing. It's the kinda thing I would wanna do but not do and then regret it later. Anyways, yeah, you have balls. "Titanium balls the size of the world's largest ball of yarn" actually. Everybody has a right to dance... and if they don't they should put up a sign saying 'you don't have a right to dance' or a list of rules that states that dancing or other such things aren't allowed. But yes. I totally support what you did because it was standing up for what you thought was right. You didn't let yourself get pushed around. And noooo, I'm not American, Slovakian in fact. I reckon for your next dancing video (if there is another. ooooh.) you should come and dance here. Big nice castle on a hill that I'm preeetty sure you can dance in front of. Anyways, looking forward to another installment of the dancing Matt,
Jana.

[nikos]

you simply should have gone to thessaloniki and instead of athens... thessaloniki is a much hippier/happier place

[Mike]

When I was in Greece, I made the mistake of striking a pose in front of the Parthenon. The crazy leather jacket wearing Greeks proceeded to blow whistles and yell at me.

[chris]

actually there is a law (eu-cultural comittion law)

u r not allowed to pose in front of cultural marks(statues in museums, the parthenon etc.)
its also illegal using cultural places for commercial use. (the parthenon for example was asked for a pepsi advertise lots of times but pepsi didnt get licence for it)

try taking a picture with you dancing inside the louvre see what happens

[Panayotis Vryonis]

As a Greek, I am begging you to post the "Acropolis dance" and, if you have it on tape, the discussion with the guards too. Please! Greek bloggers could cause those guys a lot of trouble, but having the video too would make your and our point much stronger.

If you would like to contact me on this, please do so (however, I will be on a trip till the end of the week too...).

Panayotis Vryonis,
Athens,
GREECE

[GW Bush]

As the US President I advise all smart Americans to be cautious when dancing abroad. We cannot be sure whether certain terrorizers might destroy our strategery.

[Μαύρος Γάτος]

WOW!!!!!!

Panagioti, Lili, Dimitri, how eager you are to pull down your pants!!!! And apologise for... greek stupidity!!!!!!!!!

That was the most interesting part of the whole issue for me. Matt, mate, I suppose that after all it was not a negative experience. Look how many yes-men (and yes-women, for that reason) you have attracted here to soothe your... suffering, pal...

That said, I've not seen the video and I can't possibly have an opinion on the issue. But I can say that I find the "apologies" quite disaproprionate, rather ridiculous. After all, everybody was formal with you, and they finally stepped back and let you go away with your video, whatever it was depicting. Isn't that so?

Σ;)

[Μαύρος Γάτος]

WOW!!!!!!

Panagioti, Lili, Dimitri, how eager you are to pull down your pants!!!! And apologise for... greek stupidity!!!!!!!!!

That was the most interesting part of the whole issue for me. Matt, mate, I suppose that after all it was not a negative experience. Look how many yes-men (and yes-women, for that reason) you have attracted here to soothe your... suffering, pal...

That said, I've not seen the video and I can't possibly have an opinion on the issue. But I can say that I find the "apologies" quite disaproprionate, rather ridiculous. After all, everybody was formal with you, and they finally stepped back and let you go away with your video, whatever it was depicting. Isn't that so?

Σ;)

[Μαύρος Γάτος]

Sorry about the duplicate comment! Forgot to mention I like very much your photo of the ...ancient greeks and your general attitude. YOur dancing... I suppose it sucks... One can't possibly be perfect in everything!!!!!

Σ;)))))))

[eisai malakas]

OK. Next time you come back we will send you back to Guantanamo for a touch of freedom.

[v]

asshole.

[pc]

Separate temporary and contested (Upwards of 60 million Americans disagreed with Bush enough in 2004 to vote against him; current polls put that number at more like 200 million, or about 2/3 of our population.) politics from a general discussion about intercultural communication and respect?

But then we'd all have to stop stereotyping and start listening to real people with different points of view.

That'll be the day.

"eisai malakas" is correct on one thing: This world doesn't lack for assholes, American or otherwise.

For example, I especially loved the "Middle Americans" comment awhile back. What does that mean? The hundreds of nationalities and ethnic groups that coinhabit a section of continent as large as most of Europe?

Let's see less slinging and more thinking.

I would not expect anything better and cleverer from an American!
It is obvious you know nothing about history, culture, relegion. How could you know that ancient Greeks never made sucrifices to honour Athena or any other god. But what am I saying? I bet you know shit about your country's history. OPEN A BOOK, you loser!

[thanos]

When I read your story at the Parthenon , I was disappointed and I felt the need to honestly ask you sorry in behalf of me and all the Greeks that think the same way as me ( and I believe they are a lot) Athens has change a lot the past few years but some low educated security guys with a low esteem complex abuse their authority ( if ever they have one ) Ok for us Greeks Parthenon is the cradle of our ancient civilization -u can understand that- but don’t exaggerate its not that u try to do a graffiti at the columns . Anyway there far more beautiful monuments and place in Athens an generally in Greece to dance in front of . Next time u going to visit us drop me an e-mail and maybe I could show u an inside look of Athens .

[just a greek guy]

Parthenon is a holy site allright, but Greek cops are the best lol.

You have quite a style of dancing and traveling dude. Quite a lot of money too, i guess.
But don't compare the Anciet Greek society with ..that! It's not fair for those man that gave their little something to the world.
Athens is not Ancient Athens and the security man that have arrested you isn't Socrates.

[Vivian]

I don't get you Mat. Are you making a living out of dancing in front of these places, monuments that are full of beauty and history? Or do you have a lot of money and a lot of bordom to spend? Do you ever understand where you are and what these places are to mankind? Do you realy like to make a full of yourself like that? What do you want to prove with this behaviour?

[Outbreak]

Lol... I think Vivian of the "July 07, 2006 at 7:27 AM comment" either needs to read your "About me" page or she utterly need to get laid =)

I think you have become my personal hero from now on... even thou you haven't done anything productive with your life for society... but still, I crack up with your little incidents here and there... and well, that is good enough, besides telling the cops what you told them has be be one of my favorites ;-)

Hope you keep enjoying life the way we all wish we could.

[joseph Ball]

Matt,
Im new to your journals having discovered them only two weeks ago. Seems I have two trips around the world to read about! I assure you your time was not wasted writing it because many of us envy the experience and are planning our own escapes learning from your experiences...Thank you for your efforts and determination to stay the NERD you are!....kidding...my best to Melissa

Joe and Kathy Ball
Mililani , HI

[Lili]

@mayro gato
Your a rude idiot in Greek, youre a rude idiot in english.
Apologizing?
wtf?
dropping my pants?
who do you think you re talking to?
some cousin of yours?

mal*ka
I bet you re the cop in leather jacket.
:P

[FAQU]

Q: What did Greece do for "Culture" the last 2000 years ?

A: Not much.

Q: What does Pallas Athena, the Godess of the Philosophers (!) think, when she looks down from the Olymp and sees a guy traveling the whole world alone and risking to be smacked up by some unintelligent (!) "security officer" for a 10 sec. videoclip ?

A: Herakles.

Q: What is the difference between a German, who never read Nietzsche and a Greece, who never read Platon ?

A: The German: "I am the Nation of Poets and Thinkers ("Land der Dichter und Denker")"
The Greece: "I am the nation of western culture's origin."

Q: Where does homosexuality come from ?

A: Lesbos, Sappho, Platon, etc.

P.P.S. I've got about 50 fragments of ancient pottery, that I found in the dust over at Olympos, Akropolis, Troja and Delphi. I collected them when I was twelve. They were everywhere in the sand! Is this how you take care of your great ancient monuments ? Let tourists kick them with their feet ?

I like pople, who dance. Dance is an expression of joy. Our host dances, because he "made it" to these places. So, he feels well. But it seems to me, that a lot of people from Greece do not understand what JOY is.

Too bad you have been at Hungary already. I would have invited you and given you a strict sightseeing offer. ;-) Here, where I live, there is a backpack tourist hotel in the neighbourhood.

[Henk Giertank]

Hope to go this year to tacky Las Vegas & dance and sniff some Olden World culture !!, dance in front of the Eiffel tower at the casino blabla whatevve !!

Henk from The Netherlands !!!

(love ya Matt, I'm gay by the way !)

[takis]

where is my post explaining the Greek law ????????

[lili]

probably where the sun wont shine Takis.

(jeez, relax will you?):)

[stella]

come on, takis is right, I remember reading his post on greek law, which I'm not familiar with to be honest, concerning monuments etc - and now it's disappeared?? as long as the content was definitely not insulting (something that could be said for a number of comments here...), there's no reason for it to be removed. takis just provided legal information (a good move since nobody here is talking facts, including myself) which might actually be useful; and if the info was incorrect or whatever, one should argue on it & not simply delete it.... just a pity, could've become an interesting conversation, cause now it's just people throwing out opinions like mad
:(

[J.O.]

You broke my heart and you made me cry
You said that I couldn't dance
But now I'm back to let you know
That I can really make romance
--lyrics by Lou Reed

[JP]

Matt,

I agree with those who say you were disrespectful for dancing in front of the parthenon. When you travel you should respect the ancient customs of the place you are visiting. The next time you visit Greece, do not act like the typical boorish American, but instead follow the lead of the civilised Greeks.

Bugger an 8 year old boy instead.

[Stefanos]

Hey, Im a greek , and just wanna make sure you dont judge the Greeks by a couple of assholes you met on your way. The problem with a touristy place is that some shitty people are out to get you (I went to Prague recently, was constantly dogged by idiots trying to sell me stuff etc). But ignore that and you can see the great side of the place. As for JPs comment... hehehehe :)

[lili]

Faqu
Its greek, not greece.
Greece is the country

sapho was a person from Lesbos
Plato was a philosopher who didnt believe in carnal love(thats sex), so stop mixing everything in the same bag you come out as an idiot

there is no way you have pieces of pottery from Troja ( i suppose its Troy) cause this city has disappeared thousands of years ago and its not supposed to be in Greece but in Turkey.
Also, its punishable by law to export such things and I doubt in all these years pottery was laying there for some 12 year old to collect them.

send me a piece will ya?I need a couple of thousand euros

(guys, google your facts before you shoot your ignorance-or lies- to the wind, they are not farts you know?)

was there really a post about a law and it was deleted? Not cool Mat, in that case. Not cool.

[joe]

I don t give a shit on Greece people and their history. They are just too proud of themself because The Great Alexander is gay.

Matt, i m proud of you, and of what you did. By watching the video, we realize that the world is so beautiful. Beautiful because of his diversity. So, we need to be tolerant, not arrogant like Greece peole.

[Matthew]

Very impressive. I'm not that I would have been able to do that without giving in!

[Jane]

I think your momento is stupid, Matt.

[Patti Rabun]

In response to all Europeans who think Americans are rude:
We used to live on Balboa Island in Newport Beach, a very touristy area. We rented a little apartment above a garage. I can't think of how many times Europeans (speaking languages other than English) pulled branches off our trees, threw trash alongside our home and urinated in our alley.
I may be wrong, but I believe most American tourists would never think of doing any of those things. Dancing in front of a church or "holy/revered site" would only make most of us smile.

[tam]

Patti that is too true. I grew up overseas and I know a lot of americans can indeed, be rude when travelling. matt is not one. Europeans are often the rudest travellers in the world. Greeks and Germans top the list, but drunken swedes are no fun either. The reason Europe adores to bash us, indeed the reason they are OBSESSED with doing so, is it is much, MUCH easier to bash others than look within. Europe sucks these days, they are losing their identities, cost is out of control, theres nowhere to live because they have no space left, and the slums are getting ever bigger around their cities. Feel sorry for them though-its only going to get much worse. Laugh at their america bashing, for its all they have.

[Hi]

So much hate

[=]]

"Those goddamn rash, disrespectful Americans, we wouldn't do that on their historical sites. Oh wait, they're only 500 years old, they have no history like us lololol!"

No, I wasn't quoting anyone, I was generalizing their outlook. And by 'them' I mean foreigners bashing Americans. Honestly, he danced. Who gives a shit? Hell, anyone care to dance in my yard? Have at it. Dance in front of the Statue of Liberty? Feel free. Dance on my grandmother's grave? Couldn't stop you. Maybe we have a few more freedoms we may take for granted over here, but honestly, so what if he doesn't like the Parthenon? In my honest opinion, to any of you 'holier-than-thou' jackasses out there, we're a tad more civilized due to our freedom. It's called free thinking. It's called free will. It's called living. Sure there need to be restrictions, but being arrested for dancing? Get over it, communists.

[ted]

i would have defended you, but calling parthenon a pile of stones?

not smart of you.

[Karissa]

I'm so sad that I missed seeing you. I was at the Parthenon about a week after you were there. I knew Greece had some restrictions at their temples but I never thought No Dancing was one of them. A couple people from my group had a whistle blown at them for sitting on some of the ancient stones. I thought that was a bit of overreacting.

[chemota]

this is funny...hahaha

No matt, you did wrong. you have to learn and respect the rules whereever you go. i should have deleted it inmediately.in the usa are even more strict than in europe.

have fun

[Nick]

Of course Greeks have an opinion about everything. All people do, but most do not have the guts to express theirs in public (except Californians and New Yorkers). Greece is, in effect, a US state. Or vice-versa!

[Jerry]

Duh! The Parthenon is not a Hollywood studio or something Hollywood-like you take a guided tour at by default. Try dancing or shooting a video there (a Hollywood studio)! People are given the priviledge to walk on the actual site, 2500 years old and still standing, see the Parthenon up close rather than gaze it from afar. I think that visits to the Acropolis and other such world value monuments should cost 100 USD or more per head so that people like Matt stay out or have (because they paid 100 or more, that is the American way, no free lunches) a tad more respect of the world value of precious ancient works of marvel (the same applies to other ancient monuments in Greece and the rest of the world). The Acropolis is not the Grand Canyon, dude! Grow up! Greek police was very nice to you. Try something similar in a Southern US State! Have you toured the 50 states of YOUR country? Just do it!

[nic]

for your info.......
Permit the cultureless to find their identity. Permit mutants (we’re all mutants) to take the piss. Permit bill gates to patent the 1’s and 0’s, wg’saf. Permit a dance at ground zero and the white house, wg’saf. Permit a dance at the alamo, wg’saf. Permit the dancers of humanity to dance as they desire and permit companies that pay to ride on the back of mutants for their 15mins of fame. Permit the english to call themselves Europeans when it suits, haha! Permit the americans to protect their petro dollars in the arabia’s, for better or worse, wg’saf. Permit the english to sell drugs to the world (started with the opium wars, poor maggy thatcher had to give back hong kong). Democracy means all welcome, that includes the english and their descendants; white americans (muderers of indigenous peoples), white canadians (muderers of indigenous peoples), white australians (convicts and muderers of indigenous peoples), white new zealanders (muderers of indigenous peoples). Murderous, abnoxious and destructive to humanity as they are, they are permitted to breath, eat, defecate, dance, rule (all rulers rise and fall), procreate (more mutations) and die. Since industrialism (england), the so called intelligencia of the universe still cannot figure out the construction methods of the pyramids, hehe! Those educated would realise that all words are Greek or Latin. Permit a dance in space, the moon, mars or any other planet, wg’saf. Permit me, an australian born Greek ( a wog to the english convicts, oooops! australians) to have my democratic right to free speech and post my first blog.
Ta!
:-)

[nic]

for your info lili.......
re: Posted by: lili | August 27, 2006 at 10:15 AM
turkey didn’t exist. turkish people are mongoloid mutants.
Constantinople = istanbul
Greece was up until recently under turkish occupation for 450 years so most modern day short dark Greeks wearing leather jackets are of turkish origin.
lili, are you turkish?

[Turkish]

Just to give add some flavour to this wonderful conversation and the word has finaly came to the Turks;
Did you know that Parthenon was still fairly intact until the Greek militia fighting against the Ottoman's blew it up at the end of the 19th century (it was being used as an arsenal). :)
So there goes the Sanctity and the bombing and everything else...
Come on guys he's just dancing, good or bad in his own way and as far as I know of greeks are mainly Christian Orthodox for 1800 years.
I think in a way Greek need to feel attached to their origin of Ancient Greece so they visit archeological sites as holy places. I can understand that but expecting everybody to feel that way is a little bit too much.
FOR NIC:
Istanbul was Constantinople but you may call any thing you like.
Mongoloid Mutants? Pls Inform the Leather Jacket Man what you think about his origin and inform me about his reaction. If you think you can't find him, just face a mirror that will do....

[Turkish]

Sorry nic haven't read the post before that you don't have any chance to find LJM so stick with the second suggestion...

[Turkish]

Not to miss inform future readers,
I was wrong parthenon was destroyed with Venetian powder... :)

EVIDENCE TO THE POLICE OF ELGIN'S THEFT OF THE MARBLES

Monday 23rd February 2004

Dear Sir,

Parthenon Marbles and other Grecian artefacts.
With the discovery of five new pieces of evidence regarding the above, I believe the police should now consider the Parthenon or so called Elgin Marbles as stolen property. Similarly other relics brought from Greece and offered for sale to Parliament by Thomas Bruce, 7th Earl of Elgin (hereinafter Elgin), but not accepted, should be considered likewise. The five new pieces of evidence are:

1. The Parthenon and other so called Elgin Marbles were probably obtained illegally.
2. Elgin lied to the Select Committee of Parliament, which purchased the Marbles.
3. Elgin had no authority to dismantle structures or desecrate graves.
4. Elgin used a bogus anonymous Memorandum written by himself or his Chaplin/ Occasional Private Secretary, Dr Philip Hunt, (hereinafter Hunt) to support his petition of Parliament.
5. Elgin or his staff bribed Turkish occupation officials to allow the theft of artefacts.

In light of this new evidence I would ask Fife Constabulary to consider the following:

A complaint against the occupants of Broomhall House, Charlestown, Fife.
Greek stelae, or grave markers and other items not bought by the British Government in 1816 are reported by the press to be currently housed in Broomhall House, Broomhall Estate, by Charlestown, Fife. This address is the home of the descendants of Thomas Bruce, 7th Earl of Elgin. I would respectfully ask the Chief Constable of Fife Constabulary to investigate a Prima Facie case of possession of stolen goods by the occupants of Broomhall House, there being no statute of limitation for such matters in Scotland.

A complaint against the owners of the British Museum London.
As fraud negates all statutory provisions or court regulations regarding time limitations there is a Prima Facie case that the British Museum in London is housing property stolen from Greece at a time when that country was under illegal foreign occupation. This stolen property which includes the Parthenon frieze was bought by Parliament for the nation from Thomas Bruce 7th Earl of Elgin for £35,000.00 in 1816. I would respectfully ask the Chief Constable of Fife Constabulary to investigate this matter or pass this information on to their colleagues in London for action.

Background and new information.

1. The Parthenon and other so called Elgin Marbles were probably obtained illegally:

Professor David Rudenstine, an expert on Constitutional Law and Head of the Cardozo Faculty of Law at Yeshiva University New York has recently researched the above. In his research Professor Rudenstine has proved beyond a reasonable doubt that the widely held belief that an 1801 Ottoman authorisation document, which allowed Elgin's party to remove marbles from the Parthenon walls was accurately translated for the Select Committee, is wrong (1).

It is well known that at least two so called firmans were granted to Elgin's party, one in 1800 gave permission to Elgin's artists to model and draw the Parthenon, and the second, or new firman granted in 1801 allowed the artists to model, draw, excavate and remove stones from the rubble in the Parthenon.

In his close examination of the documentary evidence available Prof. Rudenstine found that at no time was an Ottoman document or Firman produced to Parliament as evidence of the legitimacy of the removal of the marbles from the Parthenon walls. Whatever the Select Committee of Parliament examined in 1816, it was not the second 1801 Ottoman firman, but was instead either: a/ an Italian letter purported to be a translation of an Ottoman document, or: b/ an inaccurate and misleading English translation of the Italian letter.

Professor Rudenstine proved that the Italian letter was not signed and had other deficiencies that were not translated accurately to the English letter, which was enhanced to present it as something that it was not. All of this was to Elgin's benefit. It is a matter of fact that the Select Committee were wrong to consider the English letter translation as being an accurate established documentary link to the Ottoman document.

Although Professor Rudenstine stops short of labelling the actions of Elgin's party (in unauthorised removal), and the Select Committee (in accepting flawed authority for removal) illegal, he casts doubt on the propriety of both of these actions. Professor Rudenstine gives some credence to the evidence of Elgin and Hunt. I am able to go further than the Professor as I am now in possession of evidence that the only two witnesses to speak of the documents to the Select Committee, Elgin and Hunt, were individually or jointly party to misrepresenting other documents to that Committee and in consequence all of their evidence must be viewed as untrue.

If I am correct it must follow that the legitimacy of the Elgin marbles held by the British Museum is at best questionable and probably illegal. In a similar way that documents accepted by the British Museum as legitimate provenance for the art collection of Dr Arthur Feldmann were questionable and led back to German officials in occupied Czechoslovakia Circa: 1939-45. The art collection of Dr Feldmann was nevertheless bought by the British Museum despite having a murky provenance.

In 2000 the "Commission for Looted Art in Europe" sought restitution for Dr Feldmann's artworks and the British Museum conceded that the Commission had a "compelling claim". Ways forward are currently being negotiated between the parties which include the possibility of a referral to the "Spoilation Advisory Panel" (2).

Other than the passage of time there is little difference between the questionable actions of the British Museum in buying unsubstantiated artefacts looted from occupied countries in these two cases (Elgin & Feldmann).

Footnotes Section 1
1. See David Rudenstine "A Tale of Three Documents" generally PDF Pages 9-39
2. See "Commission for Looted Art in Europe" Press Release. PDF Pages 42-43

2. Elgin lied to the Select Committee of Parliament that purchased the marbles.
Professor Rudenstine has established that Elgin lied to Parliament by stating that he (Elgin) personally travelled to Athens with the second firman. This revelation by the Professor is substantiated by correspondence from Hunt to Richard William Hamilton stating that he (Hunt) was leaving for Athens within days with a new firman. It is known from Hunt's correspondence to Elgin that Hunt took the letters allowing Elgin's party to dig, (the so called second firman) to the Voivode, or governor of Athens in July 1801.

Elgin however stated in his evidence to Parliament (3) in 1816 that the second firman was addressed by the Porte to the local authorities in Athens "to whom I delivered it".

In addition to the overwhelming case made by Prof. Rudenstine that Elgin lied to Parliament in stating that he took the second firman personally to Athens, are two further references which contradict Elgin's statement to the Select Committee.

The first being that it is a matter of record from the letters of the Countess of Elgin (hereinafter Mary Nisbet), that Elgin did not set out for Athens to see the effect of the new firman which Pisani obtained in 1801, or as she put it (4) : "a whole year later, Lord Elgin was at last able to visit the scene of the operations himself",. Mary Nisbet then goes on in the same letter to her mother dated 10th April 1802 to say regarding their departure for Greece (5) : "We sailed from Constantin